This thread begs for a response! The msntv2 is a fine unit and has so many great features! It is NOT a webtv and should NOT be a substitute for a webtv. I have both and will keep both as BOTH have their redeeming values! Tommy, you and the question writer are overlooking each others valued intent. The writer could have realized that any new product is not to merely replace his different product. And you Tommy coud be a little less sensitive. My 10 year old Oldsmobile has somethings better and somethings not comparable to a new Cadillac. Am I going to write General Motors? Not likely :~) Lets work together and make the new unit "Army motto" all it can be. Nuff said---please do not take offense as none intended :~)

.....Fred

Thank you for that post.
As a part of the webtv community, it has been extremely frustrating to try to get people to realize that MSNTV 2 is not a webtv unit.
I don't think it was ever meant to be.
I've been using webtv for about 8 years, and I've been a computer user for 7 years.
Maybe I can be a little more objective, because I can see past "what's missing now" and see the future possibilities of this new set top box.
I personaly like it. I like the fact that it allows me to network with my pc and play music from my pc on my tv. I like the Radio Plus feature. I love the broadband connection.
I like the Video feature that gives you a rotating and changing menu of clips to browse through. I've had the box for about a week and I still have a lot to discover about it.
I intend to try out as many of the "unsupported" USB peripherals as I can.

As far as problems, the only major problem I've had is with the keyboard skipping, so I hope that's addressed asap. I don't know if it's a MSNTV 2 issue or an RCA issue, but it's a real sales killer, imo. I see a lot of returns if this isn't fixed soon.

Of course a lack of community discussion forum is a huge factor with webtvers, and it for me too.
I hope that the powers that be will at least consider giving MSNTV 2's new customers, a place where we can gather and feel like "family" again.
But overall, I likr the box, and can't wait to see what's in store as far as new features.
Thank you,
Brenda

May I have your permission to repost that in the alt.discuss.msntv2 group?

Donald Leonard Rants:

You replied to an Oct. 23 'Rant' question asking if the msnTV2 designers/developers were aware of the current PLUS hardware/software feature set. I think the question you responded to as well as the lack of new questions are related - we, the WebTV PLUS customer base, now know that the msnTV2 is not the upgraded hardware/software we were hoping for, and the poor showing of the very limited feature set offered indicates that we, the WebTV customer base will STILL have to act as long term beta testers of defective hardware/software, and be patient for years as we acquire and test 'new' features we already had years ago with the PLUS units. I'm sorry, but we now know that the msnTV2 IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Your outline of what transpires with a new MSN product clearly shows exactly what has P.O.ed the WebTV PLUS customer base: 1. Either the WebTV PLUS customer base was not questioned about what we wanted added TO OUR EXISTING PLUS SERVICE, or it was ignored by marketing as 'Not the MSN vision of the future'. 2. Product was pushed onto the market before even the beta problems were proven corrected. This is nothing but shaby customer relations. With this kind of feedback coming from your 'Rants' FAQ, e-mails to WebTV and MSN corp. and CONTINUING NEGATIVE ACCEPTANCE POSTED on alt.disc forums, I can understand the stress you and other msnTV2 employees may be feeling. But, do not vent on these customers who feel neglected or abandoned by msn. Instead, try to get msn marketing to communicate with their current WebTV customer base and LET THEM KNOW WHEN THEY WILL GET THE HARDWARE/SOFTWARE PLUS SYSTEM! Or tell them to forget it and buy a computer. Don

Hi Donald

I appreciate your comments regarding MSN TV. The Plus box features are nice, but the box was a big money loser. We tried to slim it down in
various versions, but by the time someone bought the box and hooked it up, we were loosing money. The customer would have to stay with WebTV for quite some time before the company could break even (notice the Plus boxes are not
longer sold...it's for this very reason). As you can see, it's not a matter of what the Plus customers want. It's a matter of keeping the business running. At the end of the day, if we lost money, you and I would be having this discussion about MSN TV 2 vs. Plus box. You cannot approach Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer and say, "We have a plan, for a new box, but we're going to lose $200 on each box and pray the customer stays subscribed for 2 years to make it up." I just doesn't work like that...they'd look at you funny and tell you to pack your personal belongings. In the end, the Plus
service was a good idea, but as a business it just didn't work (as evidenced by the fact that MSN TV (WebTV) boxes not longer have the Plus
features...oddly they still lose money on each box sold, but not nearly as much). MSN TV 2 may get Plus like features in the future, but I have no idea if/when/how. The powers that be have already said the know it's something some folks want, but it's a big risk and would probably cause issue from the business side (and maybe even the engineering side as well).

As far as the product being pushed to market before it was ready, I don't think that is true at all. Just because it was planned not to put Plus feature in the box does not mean it's not ready for market. Again, re-read
the above paragraph...it's not that MSN TV did not want to put the best features into the product, it's just that it would have made the box prohibitively expensive. As for the beta issue not being solved, I think there is a misunderstanding on this issue. The keyboard skip problem is a manufacturing problem. We had tested some early boxes (before launch),
notified Thomson there was an issue, and they said they'd fix it. They sent us new boxes which we had our hardware guys inspect and the problem was gone. So we told Thomson all is well but to make sure they didn't send out
any of the early boxes they had sent to us. They said they didn't, but guess what...some of the "problem" boxes got out. Now, I know this doesn't matter to most folks (whether it was MSN TV's or Thomson's fault), but in the end someone on the inside must have messed up and a few of the early boxes were released into the retail channel somehow. If it were me, I would
have destroyed the bad boxes immediately, but then again that's why I don't run a manufacturing line.

"Was I too mean?" Of course you were! ;-) My question could not have been more diplomatically worded, and was at pains to avoid any editorializing. And it's a question that has, understandably, been in the air. It wouldn't be an entirely unreasonable proposition if MSNTV2 had followed a PC rather than a WebTV model, and acknowledging it would be the first step to understanding it. Now if only I had written, as in fact has been the case, "Some people in the WebTV newsgroups have been wondering how familiar, if at all, the designers were with the original product," then you could have called *them* all asses, too! Just a bunch of asses and laggards... ;-)

Seriously, though, no insult was intended, and certainly not to you -- you've been our shining light, going out of your way to offer insight and information at a time when speculation was rampant and zero official communication was being provided by the corporation. And in your descriptions of the development process above, you've continued to put a welcome human face on a company that often seems to prefer to be seen as a faceless monolith. We're all lucky to have you.

Still, it's important to remember that this is a time when many WebTVers *have* felt "insulted," to say the least, by the company's prolonged lack of communication in the handling of TNB's launch, the often confusing, inadequate or even contradictory information ultimately provided, and the throwing around of those epithets like "laggards," all against the background of an apparent widespread breakdown of service for TOB subscribers which unfortunately began, coincidentally, just around the time TNB was introduced. (We've even seen reports that users complaining about this have been advised by customer service that their boxes are "old and worn out" and should be replaced with the new one!) So if my useless rhetorical question has at least opened up a little dialogue here, I hope that will prove beneficial at the present moment.

Ummmm-I am sooo confused. I believe it was Fred who commented-"msntv2 is NOT a webtv and should not be a substitute for web tv" Am I correct in assuming the new webtv2 is more for playing music and doing "media stuff"?

Can anyone please tell me if with the new "2" will I be compatable with all retail web sites, e-bay, the weather.com and all the things web tv did for me up until 6-8 mo. ago? Like be compatable with Home Shopping Network. And take less than2-3 minutes to load a page on ebay IF on RARE occasion it allows me to sign on in the 1st place. Or accept my entering "GO" after submitting my zip code or phone # on most sites? Webtv used to be a wonderful thing--i am researching the "2" in hopes (as I was led to believe by webtv support persons) that I can again log on and NOT have it be an excercise in frustration when it comes to shopping, checking weather, etc. In short--it is not compatable with or soooo slow in 75% of the places I want to go. And it USED to work great on all those places... I hope I do not have to give up my recliner for a computer desk!!

Help? Info? Thanks!

I found this site searching for information on the new msntv2.There's very little actual information here.I have gathered some info from all the opinions.like the keyboard problems."not good".I've had the webtv plus for 5 or 6 years.If I bought a pc,wich I have been planning to,would msn's 2 for 1 plan still apply,for the new box?I'm part of the old web tv family trying to gather enough info to make a decision before January(for the promo deal)We all have printers,i have a small camera(security)that had the rca jacks that I used as a webcam.If with the new Box you can upload digital photo's will there be a printer that will do true photo quality pics?MSN has the ability to comunnicate with us through our Homepage,I hope they will pump more info.If i may suggest maybe a simple table or graph,with yes or no beside the old and the new boxes.For example I heard there's no spell cheker:)I kept reading about a 23 minute video?Why doesn't MSN send us a video threw the homepage,exampling the layout of the software??

We bought a webtv2 and returned it immediately. It ws not compatible with our digital camera nor our printer..Also when we called webtvsupport we wee told if we hooked up our webtv2 we would loose all of our addresses and our favs.Now why would anyone want to buy this unit..List some pluses if you can..